Just what is this supposed to accomplish? What is it that a local Burger King has done to deserve to be closed down by Occupy Oakland for a week?
Is the beef with Burger King Corporate?
What happens to the 99% who lose one week’s worth of wages because OO is shutting them down?
Why is this happening? How will this advance the cause of this movement?
Aren’t there better targets?
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First of all, thanks to the tactical action committee for patiently answering all of my questions last night and clarifying what the action is actually going to be. I have a much easier time supporting leafleting and education to encourage people to support other businesses in the area.
I have a suggestion that might make it more effective. One big obstacle I see (and that at least one person has alluded to downthread) is that Burger King has a value menu. When money is tight, getting a burger for $1-$2 is far more attractive than paying a lot more for a burger elsewhere (even if the burger comes from a local business, is made of actual meat, etc). I propose going to the restaurants we’re trying to divert business to, like San Francisco Pizza and Rising Loaf, and getting coupons to pass out to people. Information about why Burger King is evil + an incentive to go elsewhere is going to be much more effective than just handing out information.
I would be willing to start the process of getting the coupons. I work in the city full-time and I would have to wait until Saturday to talk to them in person, but I can email and call them and see what we can work out. I don’t see any contact info for the tactical action committee listed, but if anyone from there is reading this: does this sound like a good idea, and would you like me to start on it?
Yes I saw them out there tonight at the GA. They are so enthusiastic, I love it. We have to let them learn and grow. These guys could be putting that energy into so many other directions, you know like young people do, they could be cruising the mall for chicks or whatever, so it’s great to see them out at #OO trying to improve the future of their whole community.
they have THE commitment, etc
i think the TAC is getting more than their fair share of criticism from folks instead of support and guidance. they have to commitment, the interest and the heart. guide them instead of ridiculing them.
People are poor, not stupid. Do you think that picketing a BK in Oakland or anywhere is going to “raise awareness”, or make ppl in our city think that we have interest in the communities? It’s like standing outside of Planned Parenthood and yelling “murderer!” at teenagers. Elitist, short-sighted bullshit! I cannot wait to be able to get outta bed so i can vote on this stuff again. I miss the GA’s; no matter how maddening they can sometimes be, I usually leave with hope. But being sick for ten days and watching THIS happen makes me want to ge down there, sick and all. This “Let Us Teach You How Bad Fast Food Is, Poor People!” tactic is SO gross, folks. Goddam.
This is a great idea. One of the things that caused the Egyptian Spring was the betting on food as a commodity by investment bankers. This drove food prices in Egypt up to the point that the people were starving and forced to riot. This in turn spurred Occupy Wall Street also. Healthy organic food is insanely high priced, while junk food, which costs much more to produce, is subsidized by the government which gives money to huge corporate farms already making billions. Corporate farming harms people, animals, and the environment. Food Inc. was a great documentary about this. Take heart Tactical Action Committee! Most people will love to see you out there protesting this; I know I would.
I have to confess; I’ve eaten a lot of $2 BK double stackers at that BK since Occupy started. And very often I’ve seen people in there with the Guy Fawkes masks and everything… come on, let’s be serious. This proposed action has the same pitfalls as the proposals of the LBL, which I generally support but I do understand the problems with. Such as, there is no way that poor people can affordably buy everything local at this point in time. If I tried to eat at only an organic food local restaurant every time I’m downtown for a GA, I would start to have trouble making ends meet.
That has changed a lot since Sunday when they announced it would be “occupy Burger King for a week, shut it down!”. I think an informational picket is a great idea! I hope they bring up the whole subsidized beef/chicken/corn industry. That is welfare in need of reform!
Second. I have lived all my life in “the hood”. I grew up in a very poor part of New Orleans, which is itself a very poor city, (with a row of upper middle class palaces down the center). I moved to Oakland in the late 80’s and have lived here ever since. I am currently a Fruitvale resident, formerly west Oakland and north Oakland resident. I understand that there is a paucity of healthy food choices in low income neighborhoods. Often served only by liquor stores for all of their grocery needs. This isn’t a problem if you have a car. There are plenty of grocery stores within driving distance of West Oakland. But if you do NOT have a car you are stuck picking up groceries on by bus or on a bike. Either of which is tedious and can take hours.
In my analysis, the reason for where a lot of businesses do or don’t show up is tied to where the banks will and won’t lend. Banks don’t want to lend to start a business in the ghetto. Plain and simple. I think there is very little in the fucked up world that can’t be traced back to the bank cartel. Wars, poverty, artificially inflated food prices which cause famine in Africa and Asia so they can reap profits here in the USA. I think it is fruitful to focus on the banks and the corrupt political process that perpetuates their power. These are actions that the broad spectrum of the 99% can relate to and are affected by.
Also while I respect and appreciate people who call attention to the plight of the working poor in our inner cities. I don’t think we should turn this into a “poor peoples problems are more important than middle class peoples problems”, thing.
We are all not the ones that are running things.
The original announcement was for Sunday at 10am… the only info I’ve seen since then is this tweet.
Well that makes me feel better. Thanks for the info. I am all about getting rid of fast food through ending food subsidies and through education. So I am all for a picket line at the BK. Any ideas as to a time or place as that is something I can join.
It was never voted on or approved by the GA — it was announced as an independent action by the Tactical Committee. And they’ve apparently reconsidered since then: according to the #occupyoakland twitter feed, it’s just going to be an informational picket “to raise awareness of how fastfood is poisoning our communities.”
What a stupid idea. OccupyBK! Thats the best target a large group of people, who I am assuming have brains, could come up with. First off BK is a franchise so its likely that some poor slob owns it. Second people work there and their jobs will be impacted. Third it seems random, there are a shit ton of fast food places around. Fourth and most important, what will it accomplish? It would be more productive to spend a week building a community garden instead of trying to squat in a grease trap. There are banks. Shitty banks right in downtown. Right across the Bay are bank and hedge fund headquarters and you want to sit in a BK. WTF? I would be ashamed to have come up with something so pitiful as this proposed action, and to think it got voted on and approved speaks volumes about misdirected anger. What a failure.
Yes, it would be great to meet all of you in person. Perhaps we’ve already met and just didn’t recognize each other in person since we’ve been to some of the same events. 🙂
Fair enough Antigone. I have to admit that I got worked up because I also saw on the Twitter feed that someone was demanding BK shut down for a week. My bad. I acknowledge that Twitter is unreliable, but at the same time the OO website is updated very slowly and I am hungry for news of what is happening. And I am glad to be able to have a civilized discussion with you, Simcha, and Calaverasgrandes here. Hope we can all meet up in person soon.
To clarify, I do support informational pickets and food justice at BK, Subway, McDs etc. I would be there myself to support, but I am going to New Orleans early Sat. morning. I hope to get some reports from OccupyNOLA for y’all.
Thanks!
I have been to and will continue to go to actions when I can.
Attending GAs in OGP in downtown Oakland at 6:00pm when I don’t usually get out of work until 6pm is next to impossible.
I caught this cold/flu at the march on 11/19. So it’s an Occupy cold/flu. 😉
I’ve lived all my life in the “Hood”. I do not think anyone’s voice is less valuable if they did not. I do not know if you have been around the rest of the bay area or the rest of the country. But fast food si everywhere. The “Hood” has no monopoly on that.
This may be a socio-cultural thing but as someone who has lived most of their life in the hood access to nutritious food is a primary concern and one of the key impacts of rule by the 1%. It is a matter of perspective. Someone with a middle-class background might first go for banks and transnational corporations. Someone mired in the hood might see fast food franchises as a primary target. At the very least you can educate some people and improve their lives. Direct action like that is always effective. Like the OO kitchen it was a direct action that made a difference in many people’s lives, perhaps more so than shutting down the port.
If we keep this all in perspective, to much the rest of the world, everyone in occupy is the 1% by virtue of living in the USA.
Lastly it is a picket and educational event rather than an occupation in the sense of encampment.
You guys are more puritanical than Oliver Cromwell and Cotton Mather combined. When are the occupy witch trials occurring?
yes the TAC was voted on.
No the specific action they are proposing for Sunday, uh our first day with the 2pm daytime GA, was not voted on,
it was announced. I personally dont have a problem with the actions being formulated outside of the GA. It may be better to not publicly announce some actions at all until we have flyers printed. But this particular action is ill advised. Tactically and strategically.
In case anyone is wondering, I don’t eat at BK. Matter of fact I don’t even eat meat .
First off I did make flyers for the rally tomorrow and distribute them in some areas of Fruitvale. Actiony enough?
I also go to GA’s.
I think the tactical action committee grossly misrepresented themselves.
There is a big jump from occupying govt property (the government is us right? Isn’t this ours?)
or occupying property under foreclosure (calling attention to how the 1% most venally take from the 99%)
to occupying a public business.
What is even the endgame on that?
How do you initiate that and get out of it with no people getting hurt?
Police tolerate us on public property. They will push back hard when we try to occupy private business.
Finally, what are we protesting here? Bad food? Processed food?
99percentphotog makes a good point. This inconveniences the 1% not at all.
The movers and shakers dont eat at BK.
Occupy the Clorox building.
That is an evil corporation.
Hopefully the 2pm GA time on Sundays will allow you and others to participate more in the General Assemblies. Many of us work and we are all susceptible to getting ill. We all need breaks. My question had to do with the larger point that if all someone is doing is complaining online you are not actually participating.
A movement only moves through action. We’ve been bitching online for decades. It was not until some brave souls pitched a few tents that the national dialog started shifting. I think this forum could be greatly improved by people assuming good intentions by those who are taking action and working to make this world a better place.
If you are incapable of acting locally then you will never make global change. The argument could be made that Occupy Oakland can do nothing because this is, well, Oakland. A small city near a medium city far away the national power structures. But every act makes a difference. We are small. But together with all the other occupies we are massive. And growing.
Oh, OK, it’s about nutrition and not about the way the animals are treated. That’s a very different story from what was presented here on this site yesterday and at the GA. Thanks. I just read the clarification on Twitter but didn’t understand it like this. It’s hard to write a tweet in 140 characters that brings clarity like what you said.
No, I have not lived much of my life in the hood. I work in the hood and I know what you are talking about. That makes much more sense. Also a picket makes more sense than shutting down that Burger King for a week which was what was told to everyone yesterday.
Still though, I’m not sure that this is the best way of expressing this thought especially since McDonald’s has Burger King beat by a long shot. McDonald’s is everywhere. Burger King is not quite as prolific, IMHO.
I hope the signs reflect that this is about the ‘hood not having good food that actually nurishes people. That is an issue I understand all too well.
What the 19th and Telegraph action did do is make people realize they could go and take actions. There is now a group doing extensive research for foreclosure defense. The TAC did many things with that action that were less than optimal. But they took action. Now the next group can avoid all those mistakes.
Two steps forward one step back. We still push forwards.
Simcha, I am assuming you have not lived much of your life in the hood. For those of us who have, the infestation with fastfood and the inability to get good wholesome nutrition is a primary concern DIRECTLY RELATED to the control the 1% has over our nation’s economy.
The TAC, as I understand will be picketing in order to educate about the terrible food choices we are “offered” by the 1% in the hood and how fastfood chains are a detriment to our communities.
I agree with almost everything Antigone has said. But I don’t agree that just any action is positive. I was at the GA for the proposal to rescind the 19th and Telegraph action. A lot of parents and residents were there and they were seriously pissed off at not being considered in the hasty decision to occupy Fox Park. This action did nothing to restore economic justice, impact the 1%, or portray our struggle in a positive light. It only alienated people that were on our side (perhaps marginally) and wasted time, money, and energy on a camp that existed for about 12 hours.
I am all for non-violent autonomous action. But please people, think about what you are doing and listen to the voices of those who will be impacted. Question your motivations before you act, as you question the motivations of the cops, the banks, the Chamber of Commerce, etc.
And if anyone wants to know, I am also attending GAs and marches, raising donations for OO, donating food and clothing, photographing and writing about our struggle,
This is going to sound snarky but what the heck?
Is this PETA or Occupy Oakland? This sounds like a good fight for PETA, seriously. It sounds like a distraction for Occupy Oakland which is supposed to be about a more equitable distribution of resources that includes the 99%.
Better to target banks, government buildings, corporate headquarters etc.
Burger King is part of the problem, as Mickey D and all other fast food outlets. They sell meat raised on feedlots and housed in unhealthy conditions. They sell soft drinks laden with high fructose corn syrup made from Monsanto GMO corn. I would venture to say that there is not one thing on the menu at either MD or BK that is not, in some way, tainted with chemicals to addict the customer. Monsanto, Coke and Pepsi need outlets like these to pass off their poison.
Yeah, um, I work and can’t attend GAs often at all. And currently I have a bad cold/flu so I won’t be hanging out anywhere for a while.
And I think that taking “any old action” isn’t better than taking no action at all. This plan sounds like “any old action” just for the sake of taking action. What plan is there for this? What are the reasons for this? It’s a local Burger King where minimum wage workers are struggling to get by. What has this local Burger King done to deserve to be shut down for a week.
There seems to be a fallacy that is going around lately. Somehow people believe that if you don’t go to a GA you shouldn’t be able to criticize or even have a say. If we are really a movement of the 99% that includes those of us who have to work and can’t make GAs or are too sick to go for the present.
I get to criticize because I’m part of the 99% and this is supposed to be my movement too.
This action seems like it’s coming out of nowhere and still no one has come here to explain this action to anyone here. It will look random to anyone walking by. It will look random in media. If no one explains why, it’s just a random action just because people felt that there needed to be just any action.
Question for those critical of this action. What action are YOU TAKING?
The point the TAC has been making is that they are doing SOMETHING. While they may be rash and not fully planned they are keeping things moving. I get the sense that this forum has a lot of armchair quarterbacks who have lots of good ideas but only occupy the 22nd Keyboard Division. Given the number of posts and comments that happen during GAs it is clear that many people in this forum are in fact NOT participating. Comments on a website are not participation. Nor is merely tweeting.
Rather than “I think we should…” or “Why are they…” more constructive comments come from “I am doing…” or “Next week a bunch of us are…”
Autonomous action is not just for destructive Anarchists.
I’m really having a problem with actions like this that are hastily-conceived and negatively impact low-income Oaklanders while doing nothing to disturb the 1%. Does this serve the cause of economic justice or making the rich pay? Does it help poor and working class people or people of color or indigenous folks? Will it bring support and more people to our movement? Will other Occupy groups look up to this action and find it inspirational?
It seems more like a bunch of frat boys taking out their anger on the most convenient target. Is this the work of the new Tactical Committee? I wasn’t at the GA last night so I honestly don’t know. Was this action voted on?
I was pretty stunned by that too. I hope they are joking? They came to the stage talking about marches and Occupy encampments, foreclosure prevention etc. How tactically speaking it is a good idea not to make our action plans out in the open as well. Great, yeah do that shit.
Then they come back half hour later. Occupy BK? Announce it on the mic? For a week? That is just not feasible. We would need hundreds if not thousands of people to hold that down. And its on a terrible corner. All kinds of nasty shit will happen when the police try to sweep that area. Bart station entrances, the taxi stand area etc. We need to adopt a “Fabian strategy” when dealing with asymmetrical conflict like this. We can not be more militant than the OPD. Period. It is stupid to try. They have not only guns and armor, but training and command and control. We gotta engage them in anti-militant ways. They have guns we have numbers. Spread them out all over the east bay with 4 simultaneous actions. They can’t guard every city government building from being occupied. Occupy Jack fucking London. The pearl of city hall.
But occupy BK with Occupy’s resources? I mean, you gonna pitch a tent in Burger thing? 😉