Why can’t we support local businesses? A bunch of people got up tonight and said this stuff about “Capitalism Sr.” and how we shouldn’t support “Capitalism Jr.” Hello — Maria was right on stage, she is with the Rising Loafer and she supported Occupy Oakland all along. People said, “Oh if we support the local business, someday they’ll just be the big business.” As if that’s likely to happen. The Rising Loafer is going to replace Wal-Mart at about the same time that you well-meaning people on the Western side of the theater achieve your anarchist utopia.
One intelligent person with a “Con” (hey — unlike the Republicans and Democrats, I think that we in the 99% movement should reserve the right to acknowledge the intelligence of people we disagree with) said that the measure was “short sighted.” I agree with him. But if we keep setting our sights on the longest possible goal, how do we achieve anything?
I just wanna be clear though, I haven’t given up on Occupy Wall St., I’m just very skeptical about Occupy Oakland in its present makeup which seems to be losing support and members. We can probably get a lot of people together for a few things, but many of the pacifists who were with us are gone. And people get frustrated when reasonable proposals get shot down for really abstract academic reasons.
my bad i thought it got endorsed.
” whether or not all of the 99% are ideologically sound enough to deserve our support.”
BINGO!
I’m sorry, but when people start talking about inspecting these local businesses to make sure they aren’t exploiting anybody, requiring them to donate 50% of proceeds to Occupy Oakland, stuff like that…. it’s looney time.
I didn’t realize how much of an edge of utopian/dillettante there was to #OO until the proposal came to us about fixing election software and requiring a paper ballot, and that prop got shot down because people at #OO didn’t want to endorse voting. WTF? I realized right then that the best we can hope for from this movement is a message that will shift the national dialog back to the left. People here are too caught up in their ultimate ideals to take any steps towards achieving it within the system.
Yes, I agree…. the LBL had a much clearer mission at the time when we actually had a camp. At this point, any LBL action seems to cut right into the question: “are we or are we not socialists?” Now, I am I think similar to people at a lot of Occupy groups (I’ve visited 4 others besides #OO) — people are calling for MORE socialism, but not for an overthrow of the U.S. Constitution and a new socialist order. Occupy Oakland is the only place where I have met people who are embedded in the core of the movement who reject all forms of capitalism — but accept donations from anybody anywhere.
The charity of people from the outside (including people like me who have jobs and homes in Oakland) is the only thing that sustains the so-called “Oakland Commune.” People at other groups are talking about bringing back Glass-Steagall, ending Citizens United and corporate personhood, and getting money out of politics; the conversation in Oakland seems utopian and, more dangerously, too abstract to gain any public traction.
Thanks for the recommendations, I’ll try and pass them along. I think in part some people at #OO are just happy to shoot down anything that smacks of civic responsibility. They’re more interested in purity of anarchist or socialist ideals than they are in helping the 99%. I’ve been booed at the GA for saying that Capitalism is corrupt but can still be saved. Yet this is what I understand to be the core idea of Occupy Wall Street. If I wanted to be a socialist revolutionary, I would have joined one of the many socialist groups in the bay area.
Thanks for the response; I agree with you about the difference between small businesses or small factories and those who mostly make money off money itself, venture capitalists and so forth, but I’m not so sure that we can really say that local businesses are non-capitalist or define only abuses of capitalism as “capitalist.”
But I thank you and everyone else for your suggestions on what was wrong with the proposal, and if they do decide to bring something like this again, hopefully those will be considered. It seems to me a ridiculous situation. Quite a lot of the people who oppose these “buy local” initiatives are living in tents or sleeping bags that other people bought for them at Wal-Mart. If I wanted to buy a tent to donate to #OO, where else would I even get one in Oakland? The issues are too deep to be fixed with something like a “buy local” movement that’s part of #OO, but you have to start somewhere.
Think!, I agree with your points. This situation with the LBL is just one example — the GA approved creating the LBL but can’t endorse any proposals because they aren’t confrontational enough. Time and time again, #OO has rejected the kind of proposals that other #OWS groups have endorsed easily.
I remember the last time a non-violence proposal came to the GA, one person said “Maybe the Occupy movement needs one militant group, and that is Occupy Oakland.” A lot of people on the anarchist self-segregated side of the ampitheater clapped. But I had an objection, that I made loud enough for them to hear (since I was over there smoking at the time): “Just sucks for those of us who are peaceful and happen to live in Oakland.”
This crowd has said since day one that it is “all inclusive”, “radically inclusive”, but has persued only the policies and statements that make Occupy Oakland scary and unappealing to the middle class and to many poor people. Even in the face of our withering popularity and support, they seem to be more excited about their growing control over this shrinking movement than the are dismayed by our lack of popular appeal.
Actually, the GA also turned down the LBL proposal to endorse Black Friday local shopping. Basically, none of our proposals get support becaue the “Death to Capitalism” crowd has always been bigger than 10%, and now they’ve got so many people frustrated with the GA and with #OO that they are more like 20%. My sense in the LBL is not so much that they/we (I occasionally get to meetings) are giving up on #OO, but moreso on the GA process. I personally keep going to the GA because I love Occupy Wall Street too much to let it be pissed on by Occupy Oakland’s extremist core. I realized the day I first came out to really talk to people at #OO, and a young woman who is deeply connected to this anarchist core told me that I should leave Occupy Oakland because I believe that Capitalism is corrupt but can still be saved. I knew it was going to be a hard slog at that point. But I’m still here.
As individuals when shopping at local Oakland businesses we could tell them that we support them and Occupy Oakland.
I am really on the fence about this one. I would love for there to be some kind of reciprocity between OO and the businesses that support us. However it seems like it is easy for something like this to backfire. I wouldn’t want some awful sleazy company to buy their way into saying they are an “authorized occupy oakland supporter” by just giving us a few free loaves of bread.
But hey fuck a bunch of idealogical purity.
We should have the backs of businesses that have our backs. Indeed they are risking a lot more by publicly supporting us. As one “pro” pointed out. We need to get some more middle class people involved. This is an excellent way. Lets try and be vigilant about this. Perhaps have the LBL bring up a list of busineses that we vote on at GA.
Now this is gonna sound bad, but the person that presented the proposal was very un-inspiring sounding. She made it sound a lot more boring than was necessary. I was wincing as she plowed through the words. I could tell she was losing already because the crowd was not paying attention and was all having little conversations.
Maybe next time bring the energy level up a little?
hi think!,
come on now. you’re displaying the same rigid thinking you criticize. anything that is framed as a “no brainer” needs to be scrutinized just so that we don’t fall into the trap of accepting received/conventional wisdom w/out critical analysis. we should be using our brains – and many who have support your side and a few who have don’t. it’s not rigid and exclusionary to have a high standard for collective decision making and sticking to it. the ga supported local business in the past with the black friday action to support local businesses, and the increased business that has been brought to numerous business over the last month. 70% of the ga last night supported the proposal, the people who brought it forward didn’t seek any friendly amendments and there were twitter reports that one of the proponents walked off saying they were “done w/ OO”. OO is not being rigid the proposal bringers were. 70% is a lot of support even if not enough to get official support. and the 70% of those who supported the prop. were not asked to leave or purged from the GA, they still have a voice and more importantly they’ve got skills and abilities and can organize around a common cause.
there are real problems with the proposal
1. it would’ve effectively turned OO into a free advertising/marketing engine for local businesses. which some people may be cool w/ im not really into that idea. they can come up with their own slogans and campaigns to encourage people to go shopping.
2. the first three speakers who expressed con’s had good points, change through consumer choices is not really the kind of change OO has been articulating, small/local businesses exploit workers and we shouldn’t support exploitive and unsustainable social relations.
3. a number of revisions could help the proposal:
-remove media, slogan advertising elements.
or
-an explicit list of businesses that support OO and will provide direct material aid should be supported and in that case we should directly aid them in what ever way we can – and that includes media outreach and advertising.
or
-a list of local businesses that are green-sustainable-fair trade- organic-vegan-peta approved-unionized-equal opportunity employer etc. so we can shop w/ a clean conscious.
The proposal would have easily passed at a GA with 200+ attendance — it’s hard to fault the “purists” for continuing to show up when no one else does.
And if attendance doesn’t start to pick back up, OO’s support of local business will soon be a moot point.
Supporting local small business is a no-brainer. They are us and we are them… the 99%. They are not our enemies. This is the kind of extreme thinking that keeps people from joining the movement.
Does anyone really think this movement can succeed with the number of people we have now? Good luck with that.
We are fast becoming the new 1%… rigid, exclusionary, and impossible for the majority to relate to.
I’m sure they’d find a way to shoot that one down, too. Very frustrating.
Flexibility is a key component of having a successful movement. Unfortunately, we’re talking about rigid thinkers here… which reminds me of the 1%.
Which will wither away first…the state, or OO’s GAs? Hmm, think I’ll put my money on the latter.
I don’t frequent big box stores, chains, or even Amazon.com. Until the Oakland Commune starts bartering goods, though, I do need to buy stuff from someone.
Here’s an idea: how about a proposal simply proclaiming solidarity with the 99%? How would the ideological purists shoot that one down? I don’t doubt we’d suddenly be debating the meaning of the word ‘solidarity’ or whether or not all of the 99% are ideologically sound enough to deserve our support.
I think we should support local businesses. I think people need to stop identifying free enterprise, like a store owner has, with capitalism as practiced by wall street. I prefer to use the terms mercantilism and capitalism.
Mercantilist-sells a good or service. Increases the value of raw materials like flour or wood or metal by making things. The classically defined middle class.
Capitalist-buys and sells shares in various businesses. Uses capital itself to create more capital. Including but not limited to buying political influence to change the rules of the game in which they invest capital. The upper class.
I kind of evolved this shorthand when I am trying to make sense of the right wings arguments about taxes. They always use mercantilists as examples, the local mom and pop business. But their patrons are the capitalists. That is who their tax cuts are for. Not the middle class. The mom and pop businesses are the ones that suffer. They are the funky local cafe that gets starbucked out of existence.
What I was hearing mutterings of was what does this mean? Do they get a sticker in the window? Do we have to go inspect the business to be sure it is compliant with our principles? I would like to see an amended proposal come back.
We should support local small businesses. They are also the 99%. Enough said.